Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo






runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

 
arkava Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
infinite in the future


Image

tue, may 7

i am making notes of lautman (mathematics, ideas, and the physical real) rt now. a break from kandinsky. or maybe that’s not correct. i am reading lautman under the shadow of kandinsky and kandinsky under the shadow of mahayana texts and books on schizophrenia. i don’t know what tht says about me but i am having the time of my life.

“the strictly mathematical operations being each time finite in number and bearing upon signs devoid of meaning, it is necessary to involve other arguments than mathematical reasoning to guarantee the consistency of the system of axioms and of their transfinite consequences.”

finite in number. we lose detail everywhere every time. think about loss/ politics, think about the “sublime.” everywhere we are leaking. i mean it’s in our nature to leak, our perceptual mechanisms. the need to draw back, abstract, lose some of the detail. (looking at a mountain range trying to remember every last play of light. not evening out the scenery with words/ thoughts) i guess that’s what i am trying to think about and can never get to. for example here that gap between proves and leaves. in my revisions, i put in al-khair al-mutlaq (the absolute good) but it was completely off. i wanted that break there. and there was just no space for a word. so i had to leave it out. no good.


sun, may 12

i guess i am trying to talk about that lull before the “sense of words”. when so much is happening w/o verbalization w/o admission. like we think in images in dreams, associations. that fascinates me. (i don’t dream of birds tho. mostly waves and houses.) the evening out tht happens (when i go back and describe a dream/ anxieties) has a lot of repetition like “it was a strange attic” “there were strange-looking people in each room” so you know that translation actually evens out most of what mattered most in the dream/ anxiety. but that translated repetition (soon enough) branches off into new anxieties, new branches sent into the old.

another thing that worries me is how we talk about something vast and detailed (for the hikikomori it’s the patterns his skin breaks into, or the wall on a certain morning. for the traveler, exotica). we just generalize. scrap most of the details. what happens when we push that to an extreme. that “which proves” – we know there’s nothing there. the proof stopped mattering to us long before. we, the points, expanding in straight lines or circles. the room just 12 sticks blowing in the wind.




Monday, May 06

to you
“the anxiety comes first
then the sense of words”

we hear a bird before we get to see it
which proves

leaves everything obvious
and unfinished
this pattern of waking up and then

hearing voices
convinced
they belong to me

birds traveling under my skin
in old dreams

present only to this evening
in its “most concise form”

to you


Last edited by arkava, May/16/2013, 11:26 am
May/12/2013, 9:37 am Link to this post Send Email to arkava   Send PM to arkava Blog
 
Bernie01 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


A---

i like the poem's mood.

no heedless sense of confusion. i'm given several statements as i might be given colors elsewhere.

i prefer the open based lines as opposed to the confining, limiting line here:

we hear a bird before we get to see it
which proves


this line actually takes away from my free association.


the poem, then free to express itself without anxiety, but using words.

the 12 lines won't work for me, too mechanical, but let's see how they strike others.


waking up and then
traveling


and--

  
from pattern to freefalling sound
street lights


these lines, once again, crowd, enforce more meaning than the poem is prepared to give.


the talent of the poem, for me, is the comparison to color--though unstated in the poem:

 
push back the space that surrounds us
present only to this evening
in its “most concise form”


as a statement, the reader almost faces a polemic, just when i thought of purple, or blue, i must think of evenings and concision.

the poem has something going for itself, let's all get out of the way and let these final lines prove faithful only to themselves.

a room
twelve straight lines rippling
on the screen
static



bernie



...throw a deliberate veil over unidentified elements, yet evoke their presence through allusive words…Mallarmé







 

Last edited by Bernie01, May/12/2013, 6:15 pm


---
Fall

Bob Grenier: the leaves / falling / out of the / water by the / table
May/12/2013, 5:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to Bernie01   Send PM to Bernie01 Blog
 
libramoon Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


the words
if they exist
the symbols
the numeration
grasping moment within to next
wide blue sky afloat in windborne cloud
wagging green, treehair natters
a swoop of tweet birds, nibble upon a seed
and onward
and onward
brought in with breath
May/12/2013, 5:30 pm Link to this post Send Email to libramoon   Send PM to libramoon Blog
 
Katlin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


hi arka,

I’m going to do this crit in sections. First the drawing. Interesting the way I am drawn to finding a semi-recognizalbe shape, to closure. I see a tattered stuffed animal and am tempted to look no further, but if I do look, there is more "simply what is there" to see.

I like the notion of reading one author under the shadow of another, and I know just what you mean. Some years ago I started reading Joseph Campbell. One of the things Campbell recommended was to “sit in a room and read.” And, he said, don’t read what other people tell you to read; read what you want to read. If you are intrigued by author X and X mentions authors Y and Z, then go ahead and read Y and Z. Campbell himself mentioned numerous other authors and I followed up on a few of them. It was exactly as you say: I had the time of my life. So much so, remembering makes me smile. emoticon

Since I’m recalling Campbell, I can’t help thinking about his work in relation to the terms you’ve set out. He took finite stories, the myths of various cultures, and related them to each other and to something greater. He loved the details in each of the stories though, loved telling the individual stories themselves, while at the same time being able to draw back into the abstract, into a bigger picture. For me that was helpful, because I was lost in the details of several familiar (to me) stories and couldn’t see a forest for all the leaves.

Well, that’s what I have so far. I'll be back later when I have more.


Last edited by Katlin, May/15/2013, 8:14 am
May/15/2013, 8:10 am Link to this post Send Email to Katlin   Send PM to Katlin
 
arkava Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


bernie made me think of the mood and take a leap of faith there,libra brought the birds, katlin made me sit down relax and revise. thanks so much my friends. i'll be back w/ a better response to your comments. and continue revising.

also a shout out to tere. i mentioned a leap in the revision. a personal repetition i am not sure of but one i want to hold on to. maybe not in this poem but in the long term. you inspire me tht way.

arka

Last edited by arkava, May/16/2013, 11:50 am
May/16/2013, 11:44 am Link to this post Send Email to arkava   Send PM to arkava Blog
 
Katlin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


Hi arka,

I love the line: “everywhere we are leaking.” What is finite is transient, and I think it’s in our nature to want to hold on to certain things. Or to try to. Maybe in our attempt to convey/depict/capture (if only for our future selves), we “need to draw back, abstract, lose some of the detail.” Paradoxical, if so. But could it be otherwise? To re-create a thing exactly would be to replicate something that has already passed away &/so leakage is inevitable.

Images in dreams move—in both senses of the word--so much more quickly than words can. Even the best words in the best order, if such a thing be possible. And yet, sometimes the words do catch a sense of association’s movement:

this pattern of waking up and then

hearing voices
convinced
they belong to me

birds traveling under my skin
in old dreams

I really love those lines. I like all the changes you’ve made to the poem at the end. FWIW, to me it feels more evocative, more mysterious, more you.

May/16/2013, 1:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to Katlin   Send PM to Katlin
 
Katlin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


Arka, I came across this quote yesterday on my computer and thought of this poem:

“All of this attention to the exact, occuring right now in a world of a blur, often feels like a political statement, a politics each of them shares dedicated to sharpness, to specifity. I would distinguish this from the so-called well-wrought urn of two generations ago by noting that this new generation, with few if any exceptions, explicitly rejects the glaze. It has, I suspect, less to do with craft than with ethics.”

Silliman

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/search?q=Precisionism

I saved the quote under the title "The Unglazed Gaze" which is what brought this piece to mind. In some ways all language is a glaze (not just the the well wrought urn variety); words glaze over. The mind itself can be a glaze--certain types of thinking can cause the mind/perception to glaze over. At least I think this relates to some of what you are saying?

Last edited by Katlin, May/18/2013, 1:19 pm
May/18/2013, 1:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to Katlin   Send PM to Katlin
 
arkava Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


kat, sorry for replying so late. i got fixated trying to come up with the best response i could manage. i am not sure if specificity really moves me though.even though silliman’s def seems expansive, i am not sure if it’ll include me. i have come to terms w/ the fact tht i am sticking to the mind. some form of idealism operating there in my works. i can’t remember street names, or political news, or specific tasks i am supposed to be doing, or who i was a while back. so if there’s an agenda, it’s to talk about how it feels inside the head, the ebb and flow of sentience, not refining it, not elevating it, but trying to stay there, moments after waking up. when i look back on certain people i have lost, the memories which have the most strong associations for me are of this sort. in a hill station. waking up to noodle soup. those people around me etc. but mostly the noodle soup and the peace. i think i can access those states even now. not just recall. but new event trances etc. for the life of me i cannot categorize it into religious experiences because they are not. i think you know what i am talking about. moments of what seem like transcendence. no show and no go. i will not even try telling you how much i enjoyed your engagement w/ this post. i live for this. association’s movement.

aside: ha. you won’t believe how much trouble i have convincing people (who ask me “what are you reading?” ) tht i do like reading. all this parallel processing or the branching off is part of the process. (for example igot my ‘color and culture’ book back from the library for the wife. (also the pics will light up our home for a fewdays.) i am not exactly reading it. but i am browsing. purkinje and Goethe. turner and mondrian. wow. some of them real connections. some in my head. )

yrs
arka


Last edited by arkava, May/19/2013, 11:45 am
May/19/2013, 11:44 am Link to this post Send Email to arkava   Send PM to arkava Blog
 
queenfisher Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


dear arkava

really enjoyed the poem / drawing & the concepts you've written about.

your thoughts / poems - always stretches the boundaries & expands horizons beyond...

love the line: birds traveling under my skin in old dreams.
May/23/2013, 1:35 am Link to this post Send Email to queenfisher   Send PM to queenfisher Blog
 
Terreson Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


So I've realized that I need to be in a certain frame of mind when coming to poetry. Expansive, relaxed, not rushed, not looking to meet an obligation. But also in the way that, say, I might have when coming to a lover, which is in desire for desire itself. In the case of your poetry, I especially hold off until the moment in my head is right.

Let me tell you what your piece brings to mind rather than trying to tell you what I think you might be after or, even, where I think the piece fails or passes.

About your visual. I have a collection of poems called Interstice(s). At first I meant by the title what the word, at its basic, means: a space between things. I remember thinking at the time I felt as if I was occupying a space between one lover and the next to come along. But I realized something. I realized that even a space between things is a place. Viewed as a place, it too becomes a thing. Viewed as a thing it too, that interstice, can be bodied out, fleshed up, as it were, even get formed in. More to the point, it can become an experience formative, more formative than things can ever be, since, already formed, accomplished, complete. Look at your visual,Arka. Do you see the interstice(s), in my own peculiar sense of the word, I see?

2nd part, for lack of a better term I'll call it the prose-sentence part. I always look for a peg on which to hang my hat as I enter a poem's door. Or a fulcrum point where I can sit balanced in the see saw of the poem's motion. A lever I can pull. The poem's, perhaps, one right angle leaning against which the structure stands upright. It's hinge. Your poetry especially has taught me to do this.

 ~i guess i am trying to talk about that lull before the “sense of words”. when so much is happening w/o verbalization w/o admission. like we think in images in dreams, associations. that fascinates me.~

Here is where I find the hinge I need. And, for me at least, the poem swings open. The best definition of the capacity for inspiration I've come across was in something an editor said about the poet, Goethe: the capacity "for verbalization and composition at the pre-conscious level." This phenomenon is something I know about. Image almost always comes right before the verbalization, often it is the image, complete in itself, of the whole poem or story. And there is that lull, to use your words, that stretched out moment.

Third part, poem-part. Bird as soul is an archetype, an elemental idea that crosses all local histories, cultural environments, stories, mythogems. It is found circumpolar in the record, found in images that go back to the paleolithic. And it always means the same thing. It is a damn near biological intimation of something we human type animals are persuaded we possess but can never actually prove: a soul. I'm of 2 minds and frankly I don't feel the need to have to choose between the options. Either the piece, in frustration over trying to get to where it wants to go, falls back on the archetype. Or, and what is equally as likely, its peregrinations (word deliberately employed) brings you to this:

~birds traveling under my skin
in old dreams~

That's what I got, Arka. Thank you.

Tere
May/27/2013, 2:07 pm Link to this post Send Email to Terreson   Send PM to Terreson
 
Katlin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


Hey arka,

Didn't mean to throw you off with the Silliman quote, which wasn't really the point of connection I made. The point of connection was with the file name I used to save the Silliman quote on my computer: The Unglazed Gaze.

so if there’s an agenda, it’s to talk about how it feels inside the head, the ebb and flow of sentience, not refining it, not elevating it, but trying to stay there, moments after waking up.

The experience of "not refining it, not evaluating it" I associate with an unglazed gaze.

Last edited by Katlin, May/28/2013, 12:05 pm
May/28/2013, 12:03 pm Link to this post Send Email to Katlin   Send PM to Katlin
 
arkava Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


quote:

dear arkava

really enjoyed the poem / drawing & the concepts you've written about.

your thoughts / poems - always stretches the boundaries & expands horizons beyond...

love the line: birds traveling under my skin in old dreams.



thank you queenie. you are always so kind to me. emoticon

love,
arka
May/30/2013, 11:24 am Link to this post Send Email to arkava   Send PM to arkava Blog
 
Christine98 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: infinite in the future


So arka, I've been reading Wallace Stevens and every other poem reminds me of you somehow or other; especially this from "The Man With The Blue Guitar":

XXXI

...
"Here, for the lark fixed in the mind,
In the museum of the sky. The c o c k

Will claw sleep. Morning is not sun,
It is this posture of the nerves,

As if a blunted player clutched
The nuances of the blue guitar...

XXXII

Throw away the lights, the definitions,
And say of what you see in the dark

That it is this or that it is that,
But do not use the rotted names.

How should you walk in that space and know
Nothing of the madness of space,

Nothing of its jocular procreations?
Throw the lights away. Nothing must stand

Between you and the shapes you take
When the crust of shape has been destroyed.

You as you are? You are yourself.
The blue guitar surprises you."

Last edited by Christine98, Jun/1/2013, 10:06 am
Jun/1/2013, 10:05 am Link to this post Send Email to Christine98   Send PM to Christine98
 


Add a reply





You are not logged in (login)