Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo


runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

 
Katlin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Avant-Garde Poetry Translations


The art of translating, like the art of writing poetry, is being recast by the avant-garde:

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/02/proceeding-translation-brandon-brown-david-larsen/#comment-28542

Some folks like it, and some folks don't. To hear from those who don't, you'll have to scroll down to the comments section.

Last edited by Katlin, Feb/3/2010, 11:33 pm
Feb/3/2010, 11:33 pm Link to this post Send Email to Katlin   Send PM to Katlin
 
Katlin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: Avant-Garde Poetry Translations


For anyone who wants to follow along, the above conversation has now evolved into two subsequent conversations:

"Community, Awaiting Moderation, & Why I Heart Truong Tran"

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/02/community-awaiting-moderation-why-i-heart-truong-tran/#comments

"B 3.1"

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/02/b-3-1/#comments

Last edited by Katlin, Feb/9/2010, 3:53 pm
Feb/9/2010, 9:30 am Link to this post Send Email to Katlin   Send PM to Katlin
 
Dragon59 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: Avant-Garde Poetry Translations


A comment from the original thread pretty much says it all for me:

So suddenly criticism is out of order? We’re not allowed to question the presumption of a “creative” project which puts on the mantle of translation, but is only a simulated “play” with translation as its (unreal) mode?

There’s a relativism involved in the dismissal of such criticism which perfectly parallels the dismissal of “accuracy” as a dimension of translation. Obviously by accuracy I do not mean perfect equivalence : languages & the cultures they stem from & help form differ one from another; rather accuracy is a standard, a goal, of the translator who wants to impart to the reader, as fully as possible, the shape & intentions & implications of the original.

Translation is not the same as creation. The translator is not using the original as fodder or material for his or her OWN creative endeavors : to do so is something completely different, which, while it might be fun & worthwhile in its own right, is no substitute for real translation, since it actually INTRUDES ON & BLOCKS the clear transmission or re-creation of the original. The attempt to claim the aegis of Benjamin for such creative projects, & call it “translation”, is… as James Stotts said better than I can, simply… bogus.


Bottom line which I get from above:

Translation is not creation.

It involves imagination and creativity, certainly, and interpretation. Yet it is making a new version of an existing work, as opposed to making a new work.

Having said that, I do feel that poets make better translators of poetry. Perhaps that's just an unspoken understanding of the creative process, which helps them when translating. Something like empathy or sympathy, some kind of understanding.

What I get from this post-avant idea of translating is that it's more self-justification by some post-avant guy to do what he wants to do. There's a real habit that's developed among the post-avant to come up with a theory to justify or rationalize what they want to do after the fact. I'm still not sure if this is cleverness or laziness.

Last edited by Dragon59, Feb/9/2010, 3:07 pm


---
www.arthurdurkee.net
lcgallery.tv
artdurkee.blogspot.com
ruralplainsgay.blogspot.com
Feb/9/2010, 3:01 pm Link to this post Send Email to Dragon59   Send PM to Dragon59
 
Terreson Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: Avant-Garde Poetry Translations


I've been thinking about the topic. What finally fines through the gauze is a single word: parasitism. This is not what Pound, the father of modern poetry translating, had in mind. Anyone who wishes to argue the point first needs to read Sextus Propertius back to back with Pound's "Homage to Sextus Propertius." Sorry, but I've grown weary, really weary of this current batch of so-called avant-garde types. Translating poetry is one thing and hard enough. Transliterating is both harder and maybe more effective because it looks to idiom. Transmogrifying is not something I accept because it way too involves the interpeter's ego and personal inclinations.

The transmogrifier is just a parasite looking to compensate for something. You may quote me.

Tere
Feb/9/2010, 9:27 pm Link to this post Send Email to Terreson   Send PM to Terreson
 
SteveParker Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: Avant-Garde Poetry Translations


I don't get the objections. It's well known that translation is a nebulous and subjective thing, so what's wrong with taking that aspect of it and making it into something in itself? That's not parasitism because it's not feeding off the host. It's feeding off the interplay between the two states, and that's not something that the original contains. That is a higher emergent function of the interaction between the poem and the reader/translator. Seems exactly the same to me as any other attempt to decode our experience. Why is it okay to do it with love or war or cookery but not with the wonderful and fertile dissonance that is inherent in language transportation? Saying it's parasitism seems to me rather like saying any meta-form is parasitism, including any commentary or critique or any referential or interactive work of any kind. On First Looking Into Chapman's Homer is a beady wight then, no doubt. emoticon

Steve.

Last edited by SteveParker, Feb/12/2010, 7:24 am
Feb/12/2010, 3:03 am Link to this post Send Email to SteveParker   Send PM to SteveParker
 
Terreson Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: Avant-Garde Poetry Translations


Thinking about a side issue here. I think it was Robert Fitzgerald, well known for his Homer translations. But it might have been John Frederick Nims, another poet and translator of poetry. Somebody said that all poetry translations are done for one's own generation. And that each new generation must make its own. The point is brought home to me when, say, I read the Dante translations made in the mid-19th C by the poet and painter, Rossetti, which to my sensibilities are unreadable. Further when reading Rossetti's translations I feel I am not reading Dante himself but Rossetti and that I am stuck in a very Victorean England. This is another reason I can't subscribe to the Avante-Garde theory of translating. I want my translators to subsume their own personalities as much as is humanly possible. To keep as faithful as possible to the spirit of the original, even when forced to work idiomatically, which is often the case and can be done to good affect. I am honestly not interested in the translator as an originator. Her job is to bring me as close as possible to the original itself. Probably in the end the job is impossible, at least in a perfect way. But this is the limitation, or it should be, within which the translator works. So yeah. As harsh as the assessment may be, I do find this new approach parasitic. Above I mentioned Pound's "Homage To Sextus Propertius." It too could be called a transmogrifying of the Roman poet. And it is a darn good poem too, certainly one of greats of 20th C English language poetry. But in his title Pound tips the hat, admits to what he is doing. And, again for me at least, that is a big difference.

Tere
Feb/15/2010, 4:59 pm Link to this post Send Email to Terreson   Send PM to Terreson
 
Katlin Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Reply | Quote
Re: Avant-Garde Poetry Translations


There is a new discussion over at Harriet concerning multilingual poetics, bilingualism and immigrants:

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2010/02/al-que-quiere-a-bilingual-mfa-multilingual-poetics-and-the-in-english-only-poetry-contest/#comments
Feb/20/2010, 8:57 am Link to this post Send Email to Katlin   Send PM to Katlin
 


Add a reply





You are not logged in (login)